Rory and Alistair on the treatment of palestinian prisoners
2024-08-22 16:59:00 +07:00 by Mark Smith
It was interesting to hear Rory Stewart on a recent Rest is Politics podcast episode [35:18] discussing Isreal’s horrendous treatment of palestinian soldiers:
The situation in Isreali prisons is very very disturbing. There are currently 10000 palestinians detained in isreali prisons approximately. Of those, 4781 have been detained without trial, no charges, without the ability to defend themselves. It could be that they are young men of a certain age, who might be considered by the isreali defence forces as potential allies of terrorist groups. Some of them appear to be in purely for posting stuff on Facebook that seems to be critical of the isreali government.
And B'Tselem which is an isreali human rights organisation founded by progressive isrealis who are critical of the isreali government, have conducted interviews with 57 of these Palestinian prisoners and have recorded what they believe to be an absolutely systematic policy of physical torture, mental torture, depravation of food, depravation of water, depravation of sleep, striping of personal processions, 12 people being crammed into a prison cell designed for 6, some of them obviously sleeping on the floor, with no beds, no mattresses, no blankets. And this appears to be in line with the fact that the security minister, Itimar Ben Givere, who is on the right of the Isreali cabinet, has made it absolutely clear that he intends to make conditions in prisons worse for prisoners.
I was struck with how similar the language used to describe the conditions is to many of my descriptions of the situations that I've been put through here in Vietnam. Also for any numerologists out there, I can tell you that in this context, the number 57 is significant.
Rory continues:
He’s trying to hit the absolute legal minimum of provision for Palestinian prisoners, which is leading to this systematic abuse and torture. Related to this, 5 isreali soldiers are still currently charged for sodomising a prisoner in a desert camp. The associated press, in case people think this is just B'Tselem making this up, has also been conducting interviews with released prisoners, revealing people who are being allowed into daylight for 15 minutes in a periods of a few days. One of them hadn’t been outside for 87 days. So this is very very very disturbing.
Whatever one thinks, heinous attacks by Hamas on October, horrifying terrorist atrocities, but the response from the isreali government is being challenged and should be challenged and is being challenged by isreali human rights groups quite correctly, cause this is horrifying stuff.
What kind of legal minimum equates to systematic abuse and torture including physical torture, mental torture, depravation of food, depravation of water, depravation of sleep, striping of personal processions? That’s the most insane legal minimum I’ve ever heard about.
Alistair Campbell responds:
I guess the thinking behind Charlotte’s question is that, is it really being challenged? Here we are in Chicago and the biggest demonstration that’s going on, there’s quite a few demonstrations around the place, the biggest demonstration is about the american administration and position on Gaza, and there’s pretty steadfast support for Isreal. And the other thing in this context that was, I thought, quite newsworthy and interesting this week, was this letter of resignation by a civil servant at the foreign and commonwealth and development office, Mark Smith, who essentially had said I’ve been trying to raise alarm about our system for selling arms to isreal, and what they have been used for, I get nowhere, therefore I am resigning, and it didn’t make that much of a splash. And I think this is the point that we’ve been making repeatedly is that this stuff has just become very very normalised. And as it happens, I think David Lammy, he is reviewing this position about Britain’s arms relationship with Isreal. I don’t know when that’s coming, I don’t know what the decision will be, but I wonder whether Mark Smith’s was a deliberate move trying to push in that direction. I’m sure you’ve spoken to people in the foreign office who are pretty alarmed about this?
Well obviously that’s going to catch my attention. How bizare, another Mark Smith trying to raise awareness about people being miss-treated. I don’t think I’ve ever met another Mark Smith in person. He sounds pretty cool.
And a final back and forth on the matter:
Rory: Yes but there is of course a consensus between the main political parties in Britain, and pretty much a consensus between the political parties in the US as well, and pretty much a consensus between the main political parties in Germany, which remain pretty stead fastly pro-Isreal, and again I am very aware that in quoting this report, and criticising the treatment of prisoners, I can see the flood of emails about to come in, saying at least we investigate, at least we have human rights groups, at least we have imprisoned our soldiers for sodomising people. But I don’t think you can get around the fact that the security minister has made it entirely clear that this is a policy. Nor can you get around the fact that 5000 people are detained without trial.
Alistair: Or the fact that 40000 people are dead, and they’re not all Hamas.
Rory: And this is where in Chicago we need a very clear sense from Kamala Harris on what she’s actually doing, what is her strategy, because clearly Biden’s strategy hasn’t worked. And I assume the way to do this, if she wants to hold the two parts of her party together, is to say to Isreal your strategy is not working. This is not the way to win a war and you are going to have to stop doing this. Meanwhile let’s not forget about Lebanon, let’s not forget about the possibility of a war with Iran.
Strange old world sometimes isn’t it fellow internet cousins?
Here’s to hoping a resolution to the situation will be found. A lot of people suffering unnecessarily. #